E9: Adam Pearce

Richard Hill [00:00:07]:
Welcome to episode nine of Agency Intensive. I'm Richard Hill, your host. In this episode, I speak with Adam Pierce, CEO of BlendCommerce and cofounder at the Ecom Collab Club. Adam owns and operates a pure Shopify CRO agency and runs the ever growing ecommerce events company with global ambition. We chat deep service focus on working with specific partners, navigating the competitive UK market and overcoming challenges of scaling his agency, navigating capacity planning and hiring and retaining talent. We go deep on events and event planning from getting guests to turn up and to getting those first few sponsors to your events. Agency owners and personal branding, Adam's take, and quite a few stories from the front line in this one and so much more. Now do me one favor.

Richard Hill [00:00:56]:
Hit the subscribe or follow button wherever you are listening to this podcast. You're always the first to know when a new episode is released. Now let's head over to this fantastic episode. Welcome to Agency Intensive.

Adam Pearce [00:01:10]:
Thank you very much for having me, Jim.

Richard Hill [00:01:11]:
Appreciate you coming over. I know it's a little bit of a run.

Adam Pearce [00:01:14]:
Oh, no. It's good. You know? It's a bit of free time just to get my head straight in the car before, you know Yeah. Yeah. Start the day. Well,

Richard Hill [00:01:20]:
I'm looking forward to jumping in. But I think before we get into the nitty gritty of, the in and the ins and outs of running an agency, now how did it all begin? Step us through the sort of the start of the agency journey.

Adam Pearce [00:01:32]:
Yeah. So I had no intention or understanding of e commerce when I graduated uni. I did a degree in economics and thought I was gonna be this high flying management consultant. Went to work for Accenture and realized I had to just learn SQL. I'm not technically minded. So that didn't work out too well. So I did it about three years. Decided I wasn't gonna save the world and become a teacher.

Richard Hill [00:01:56]:
Mhmm.

Adam Pearce [00:01:56]:
There's a cycle here. There's a three year thing. Did it for three years. Actually had a mental breakdown after three years, which wasn't the best, but made me kind of reevaluate what I wanted to do in my life. And then I went to actually work for an educational app company. So it was kind of half and half. You know, there was the the the kind of corporate business side, and then there was the education side. And then at that time, when I, again, was about three or four years in, my brother-in-law was a quantity surveyor, and he got completely fed up with it and said, I wanna go and be a coder.

Adam Pearce [00:02:25]:
And I went, okay, mate. Yeah. Good luck. And, at the time, there was a Shopify thing coming about, and he met this guy called Jonathan Kennedy. And he was like, look, you know, if you wanna get involved with it, start learning it. And that's how he kinda started out. And he came to me and said, look, mate. I know you can do the marketing piece.

Adam Pearce [00:02:44]:
Do you wanna come into business with me? And I kind of went, well, it's a bit risky. You know? I've got a nice salary. Everything's hunky dory. And, we went for it, and he actually employed me for three months. It worked. We kept getting loads and loads and loads of work, and then Blend was then formed. So I had a I think, you know and it's one of the reasons I love ecommerce because I think a lot of people that, you know, I now work with my peers did sort of fall into it. And I think that's what's nice with ecommerce is that there isn't that kind of old boys' club, particularly, I think, in the Shopify space because

Richard Hill [00:03:15]:
Yeah.

Adam Pearce [00:03:15]:
We are realistically, you know, probably ten, fifteen years old as an industry.

Richard Hill [00:03:18]:
Yeah. Wow. So you basically, what, pretty much burnt the bridges or burnt the boats, I think they say. Don't they? Burnt the boats and forth. Let's give this a go.

Adam Pearce [00:03:26]:
Yeah. Absolutely.

Richard Hill [00:03:27]:
And, so that was employed with this chap to start with.

Adam Pearce [00:03:31]:
Yeah. So Peter, is actually my brother-in-law, who's also my business partner. So Yeah. You know, that's, that was a rough and smooth, over the years.

Richard Hill [00:03:40]:
But he's in the other side of the world now.

Adam Pearce [00:03:41]:
He is. Yeah. So I don't have to see him or smell him, which is, you know, a benefit, really.

Richard Hill [00:03:45]:
Yeah. That's a bonus. I have met him, to be fair. So. Yeah.

Adam Pearce [00:03:47]:
He's a good lad.

Richard Hill [00:03:49]:
We'll make sure he sees this.

Adam Pearce [00:03:50]:
Yeah, exactly. Hi, Peter.

Richard Hill [00:03:53]:
So obviously. So you started obviously that usually that first year or so can be a little bit tricky, to say the least.

Adam Pearce [00:03:59]:
You know,

Richard Hill [00:03:59]:
how did you navigate that first year or two? Obviously, you're you're used to a certain salary. I'm sure Peter was or was you know, obviously, it's maybe slightly different, scenario, but, ultimately, you've got bills to pay. You've got mortgage to pay. You've got maybe some of this team to pay that first week I'm sorry. First year or two

Adam Pearce [00:04:15]:
Mhmm. How

Richard Hill [00:04:16]:
to navigate some of the challenging times.

Adam Pearce [00:04:17]:
See, I would say in a way, we were very lucky and had it probably easier at the start because at that time, you know, we're talking sort of eight, nine years ago. Shopify was very much at infancy Yeah. And particularly in The UK. Now with The US market, there were a lot of kind of, you know, mom and pop shops who have started, and they needed someone to help them. So we used to get probably, I would say, between twenty and thirty leads a day from Shopify themselves Oh, wow. Because it was such a new piece of tech.

Richard Hill [00:04:45]:
Yeah.

Adam Pearce [00:04:45]:
There wasn't anyone to do it. Yeah. So we you know, at the start, we were doing lots of kind of very small jobs, you know, kind of £200 here, £500 there. And then we sort of just eked out. I think the the problem that we did have in the first year though is that because they were such small businesses, they wanted one agency to do everything. So, yes, we will do PPC. We will do your site development. We will help SEO.

Adam Pearce [00:05:10]:
And, of course, we did the the usual dumb thing that a lot of agency founders do and think you can do it all. Yeah. And actually you realize you can't there's certain things you're good at, there's certain things you're alright at, and there's certain things you just need to bat off someone else. So I think we learned that the hard way probably in the second year where we got to a point with certain clients. And for example, like Facebook ads, it just wasn't working. Yeah. Because, you know, we we weren't invested enough in doing that to actually get returns, and that's when we had to kinda take a step back and say, look. What is the core thing we're gonna do him? And then try and be a bit more specific about what we're gonna have to the market or what we could offer.

Adam Pearce [00:05:47]:
So I think it was it was kind of the point of sort of narrowing it down and not trying to pretend that you're this kind of, you know, ecommerce wizard

Richard Hill [00:05:53]:
Yeah.

Adam Pearce [00:05:54]:
Because we weren't. Yeah. You know? That is

Richard Hill [00:05:56]:
so common, though, isn't it? You see it. You know? That's they use it as number one sort of, topic that we it's threaded through a lot of the episodes ultimately to run an agency and scale. You plug in so many holes if you're trying to do everything. Yep. In reality, within most agencies, there's one or two or hopefully one core strand that's maybe got a few offshoots or you're known as that one thing. Put your hand up and you get known. Adam's the guy for

Adam Pearce [00:06:22]:
Hopefully now it's CRO. I mean, that's, you know, been our our kind of stick for at least the past kind of two and a half years. Yeah. Did you see quite

Richard Hill [00:06:30]:
a shift when you sort of decided, right, you know what? We're not gonna be we do this, this, this, this, this, and so I went right. Let's let's take a risk. We're gonna we're gonna dump all this shit off the website. Yeah. We're gonna maybe have to make a few people or retrain or whatever we have to do. We're gonna go all in. Well, what was that navigating that sort of transition from a bit of maybe everything or half a dozen things to go and write. Let's go.

Adam Pearce [00:06:51]:
Well, we in all honesty, I think, you know, what what we did is we kind of reacted to what the market was telling us in a sense because when we decided, look, originally, we were very much come in, we do a website, design, build, you move on. And I think the problem with that for us was is that from a pipeline and cash flow perspective, you do a project, they've spent the money as a brand Yeah. And then they wanna move on and go and talk to you. So we were we're finding the stuff we were doing was a lot about customer experience. And I think from that, we then said, look. We're gonna be a customer experience agency. And we in all honesty, we watered down too much. Oh, we still do a bit of development, and we still do redesigns.

Adam Pearce [00:07:32]:
Yeah. But mainly we do CX. And I think the problem with that is people were still coming to us looking for a full redesign. We didn't wanna do that work. They said, well, what actually do? Oh, we do CX. Well, that's not really what we're looking for. And as then time went on through that, we said, well, look. It's not actually CX doing.

Adam Pearce [00:07:51]:
It's actually improving the metrics of a store that is functioning well already Yeah. And needs to be better. So we kind of said, actually, what we're really doing is CRO. And then, you know, sort of making that decision, it's hard because I think, you know, as an agency owner, you wanna say, look, you wanna give yourselves as many opportunities to sell as possible. And, you know, for example, if SEO isn't doing so well, then you can sell PPC or you can sell redesigns. But, actually, if you narrow it down more, what we found is because your messaging is so much more CRO, CRO, CRO, you naturally get rid of the chaff that you don't want, and then you get a smaller group of people, but they're the people who actually wanna buy

Richard Hill [00:08:31]:
the conversations.

Adam Pearce [00:08:31]:
Exactly. And I think, you know, it it was a hard thing to do because we knew that we were gonna narrow down the people that we could approach.

Richard Hill [00:08:38]:
Mhmm.

Adam Pearce [00:08:39]:
But at the same time, it's made our staff happier. It's made us happier. It's made selling easier. Yeah. Because when people come in and say, oh, actually, you know, we want nature through everything. We can't do that, guys, but we can do the CRO piece, and then we've got three or four partner agents that we can then refer you to. For some people that works. For some, it doesn't.

Adam Pearce [00:08:57]:
Yeah. But if it doesn't work for them, we don't wanna bring them on because we know down the line Yeah. They'll be unhappy and they'll walk away.

Richard Hill [00:09:03]:
It's a beautiful thing, I think, when they when you get a lead that comes in and then they obviously, they've they've seen that you are the c r CRO firm. They come and they inquire. You've maybe been recommended even better. And they wanna have a CRO conversation, and you think

Adam Pearce [00:09:18]:
It's the dream. That's great.

Richard Hill [00:09:20]:
The chance of conversion, obviously, is sky high in comparison to, oh, we're doing a bit of this and that. And we maybe haven't got much experience there, but we'll have a go at it sort of thing. Yep. Yeah. It must be difference must be night and day. Yeah.

Adam Pearce [00:09:32]:
It is. And I think, you know, it's also I think with those conversations, I think, you know, CRO, I always say is quite a lot, you know, CRO, there's there's this kind of broken telephone issue with it in that, you know, when CRO started, it was very much kind of a data driven, looking at analytics, making hypotheses based off the data, and then doing implementation on-site. I think the problem is that has become diluted now. And a lot of the time, you know, you have a conversation with the CRO, and it's like, right. Can you just have a look at the site and do some stuff for us? Well, we can, and there's an element to what we do on that front. But if you want it to really work for the longevity, it needs to be a bit deeper. Yeah. So you come across those kind of issues sometimes.

Adam Pearce [00:10:16]:
I think the other issue you go across is when you talk about CRO, I think some people get a little bit confused about the acronym and not actually what it's about. So for me, what CRO is about is your lifetime value of a customer is x, and you need to get it to y. Yeah. What are the things that you can do on-site and off-site Yeah. To get that number up? Yeah. And I'd I generally have that conversation to start to make sure we're on the same page Yeah. Because sometimes that isn't what

Richard Hill [00:10:43]:
we're understand that is is needed. Yeah.

Adam Pearce [00:10:44]:
You know, and it's like our conversion rate is 2.1% at the moment. We need to be 3.1%. Okay. But what about the other metrics? What does that mean by

Richard Hill [00:10:52]:
time? Yeah.

Adam Pearce [00:10:53]:
Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's So

Richard Hill [00:10:54]:
I'm I'm I'm gonna go back a step. So, obviously, we talked about, you know, doing a bit of everything, and, you know, it's quite a lot project work potentially at the front end when you're building websites. Whereas now, obviously, with CRO, I'm intrigued to know how your billings may be split, you know, in terms of, like, projects, retainer. Obviously, I'm assuming CRO, you know, is a is a is a few few few options on the menu for for potential customers, but, ultimately, it's an ongoing process, isn't it? So then it's a retainer based process, but then you've got projects as well. How do you sort of

Adam Pearce [00:11:26]:
Yeah. So we we generally are, at the moment, about 90% retainer based.

Richard Hill [00:11:31]:
Yeah.

Adam Pearce [00:11:31]:
The other 10% of our revenue is for either kind of short term development projects. But the reason we do those is because we often see those as a chance to prove ourselves.

Richard Hill [00:11:40]:
Lead into.

Adam Pearce [00:11:41]:
So, you know, it it might be a brand that's not quite ready for CRO. Yeah. But we do that in the hope then that we can get them to that point, and then we can then work on it. And with the CRO retainers that we do, we are generally trying to work with brands that are doing between 2 and £10,000,000 or 2 and $10,000,000 a year. Yep. Because the issue we find is that smaller than that, there isn't enough traffic on a site to make Siro worthwhile. Yeah. Secondly, for a in terms of organization bigger than 10,000,000, we find that very hard to work with.

Adam Pearce [00:12:13]:
We we can't service a team where there are eight or nine people making decisions Yeah. About CERO. It's gotta be quick. It's gotta be rapid. You know, we we've just actually lost a client, recently who was way above that figure, and the main issue was is that we were making suggestions to them, but each of those suggestions is going through three or four levels of proof.

Richard Hill [00:12:31]:
Weeks to be Yep.

Adam Pearce [00:12:32]:
And, you know, it's it's not right for them, and it's not right for us. Yeah. And, ultimately, then, because you can't implement Yeah. You then can't get the results.

Richard Hill [00:12:39]:
And That is a great point for people listening because I think quite a lot of projects, you know, I was thinking about the SEO side of our Mhmm. Our agency. You know, we you know, we're we're sort of selling the recommendations, but, ultimately, there's only so many we can make. And therefore, you're getting delayed, and then you might have some difficult conversations. So it's trying to have

Adam Pearce [00:12:56]:
Mhmm.

Richard Hill [00:12:56]:
You know, working with people where, as you say, that, you're able to implement this, probably a nimble process at the back end or the people that you're dealing with are the people that can make the decisions. As things get stretched out and then somebody's saying, well, what what did what's the agency doing? We think, well, we're trying to do the thing, but we're not getting any output from you guys. You know, we need a little 10% effort from you guys or whatever it may be. It can be a little bit challenging, can't

Adam Pearce [00:13:19]:
we? Yeah. Absolutely. And I think, you know, it's one of the things that we always ask when we talk to people on the phone is who's in your team? Yeah. Because we you know, when we hear that, you know, there is, you know, five or six people within that group making decision, that then has an impact on our appetite for it. If we know that we're doing one or two people with a very specific remit Yeah. That's a lot more attracted to us Yeah. More so than that being a big company that's got a bigger budget. Yeah.

Adam Pearce [00:13:46]:
We'd rather have a smaller budget, but know that we can make the impact then and then retain them. Yeah. You know, have them as a great case study to then bring the brands on. I think

Richard Hill [00:13:54]:
the projects thing is interesting because a lot of people, oh, they just do retainer or they try to just do retainer, but, obviously, potentially one, two, out of three projects, you're getting a chance to, obviously, meet, greet, test, you know, give an example of where they get to know your team. Then the problem is a lot of, teams in in in merchants have maybe been burned before. I've heard heard everything a million times over a little bit tainted, which projects, it's almost like a a taster of Yeah. Of your agency or the agencies listening. So, you know, I'm a massive believer in doing project work. You know, it's quite a ring fence. The scope is very clear, which you gotta be careful of as the next thing you know. But Yeah.

Richard Hill [00:14:34]:
You don't mind a little bit of helping out here and there, but you do a project. Obviously, it's a it's a chance to showcase what you can do. They get to meet three or four of your team, but not just had the experience with the sales guy. Maybe that's

Adam Pearce [00:14:46]:
Of course.

Richard Hill [00:14:47]:
That sold the project. So, obviously, we've gone on that journey. We've started the agency with your brother-in-law, very very unique, proposition that. And then, obviously, really solidified the message in the market of CRO agency. But then, ultimately, winning new business. I know you do some amazing things with events. You know, step me through how you know, what you're doing, but how did that start? I mean, I know you've got an amazing, you know, events company. I know it's a lot more than that.

Richard Hill [00:15:15]:
But how did it start and step us through some of the maybe behind the scenes things that help you win new business.

Adam Pearce [00:15:21]:
Yeah. I mean, we we first started using events predominantly for Blend when we started as a way to bring new business in. And what we used to do is do these things called Shopify Meetups. And what Shopify would do is they give you, you know, a chunk of cash and say, alright. Go and run an event in the city near you. Yeah. Bring merchants in. Bring tech partners.

Adam Pearce [00:15:39]:
Bring agencies. And, obviously, you know, that worked really well. We did that. I think we probably did five or six of those over the course of maybe six

Richard Hill [00:15:47]:
or 10. 20 people or bigger? Yeah.

Adam Pearce [00:15:49]:
I mean, the the first couple, I think, were about 20 people. And then we did one at Harvey Nichols in Birmingham. We had 60 people for, and that that was great, you know, great content off the back of it. And I think, you know, what I liked about events and what I still like about events is it gives a perception that you are bigger, older than you are as an agency. And I think, you know Yeah. It it helped us win some business early days

Richard Hill [00:16:12]:
Yeah.

Adam Pearce [00:16:13]:
Because people thought, because, you know, our faces are everywhere on LinkedIn Yeah. That we were a bigger team and have been more experienced, which was great, you know, for us. COVID kinda happened, and, obviously, everything went to s h I t. Mhmm. And then afterwards, you know, we all did it. You know, we we tried to get involved in webinars. We, you know, tried to, you know, get people involved that way. And there was a lot out there that was going on.

Adam Pearce [00:16:35]:
And we said, look. What we will need to do is do something where, a, it's a networking event that we would go to because, believe it or not, I bloody hate networking events because I'm crap at it. Same. Pizza's even worse. So he said, look. If we do something whereby it's very tongue in cheek, it's very relaxed, but there's lots of value in it. Yeah. That's come the way to go.

Adam Pearce [00:16:56]:
Yeah. Yeah. And that's how Ecom Club was born. So we started off we we hired a cinema out in Leicester Square in London. We had about 30 people

Richard Hill [00:17:04]:
show Whose idea was the cinema then?

Adam Pearce [00:17:06]:
So I nicked that completely. Is it

Richard Hill [00:17:08]:
from us? Or

Adam Pearce [00:17:09]:
No. No. No. No. No. It

Richard Hill [00:17:10]:
was,

Adam Pearce [00:17:11]:
I'm sorry.

Richard Hill [00:17:11]:
I'm gonna check your timeline.

Adam Pearce [00:17:12]:
No. No. No. It was it was actually I think it was, a networking event. It was, like, a general business networking event in Birmingham. And, the life of me, the name of that has gone, I'm ahead. But we went to it. We're like, this is a great cool spot.

Adam Pearce [00:17:25]:
Yeah. Great idea because, you know, you've got a big area of the park.

Richard Hill [00:17:28]:
A difference, doesn't it? Yeah. You know, and you you think network, and you think half past six in the morning maybe with a cold cup of tea and a bacon sandwich in the back house or some, excuse me, you know.

Adam Pearce [00:17:37]:
Yeah. Exactly. But, you know, I'm sure, you know, and I'm not calling that BNI specifically, but I think, you know, those kind of type meetings where, you know, it is very much you turn up in a suit, everyone does their pitch. It's very, very structured and formal. You know, there's there's that sort of you go with a bit like, oh, I've got I mean, I've got to go win business today. Yeah. And we just want it to be the opposite of that.

Richard Hill [00:17:56]:
Very relaxed.

Adam Pearce [00:17:57]:
So, you know, that's what we did. We, you know, we had, Mark Cooper, who who's now at Dot Digital, but but now at that time was with, with, ShipStation, I think it was, or one of the shipping brands and Starship it rather. And we said, look, if you sponsor it, you know, it's the first one, see how we get on. 30 people showed up, and then we just started building, building, building month on month on month. So we get about a 10, a 20 people a month.

Richard Hill [00:18:22]:
And how long ago was that one in the first maybe the first event?

Adam Pearce [00:18:25]:
Two years ago. Yeah. It was only two

Richard Hill [00:18:27]:
Yeah. So

Adam Pearce [00:18:28]:
it's it's it's gone quickly, but, you know, I think it's yes. There's been a lot of work outside, but I think also what I love now is with the events that we do, we get a lot of people who have then gone on derivative events off the back of it. So we have a group who have the tech founders lunch. We have the women in ecommerce lunch that

Richard Hill [00:18:47]:
follows up. Met at the event. So that we could do an offshoot,

Adam Pearce [00:18:50]:
do our

Richard Hill [00:18:50]:
own thing, you know, do it at a separate event, very specialist. Yeah.

Adam Pearce [00:18:54]:
So, yeah, it it gives that you know, for me, I love that feeling, the fact that people have then got together off the back of what we're doing. Yeah. You know, it's it's a really nice feeling to kinda have that that you built something that people, a, will go to Yeah. But then do other things off the back of it. Yeah. And, you know, I think from from an agency point of view, it's I'm very careful because the two businesses are separate. And what I don't want people to think is, look, I'm using this as kind of, you know, a a sales funnel. Because in the time that we've done this, we've never used it as a right.

Adam Pearce [00:19:25]:
You came to Ecom Cloud Club. Yeah. Come and buy us stuff at Blend.

Richard Hill [00:19:28]:
Yeah. We've never done that.

Adam Pearce [00:19:29]:
Yeah. But, you know, serendipitously, it sort of just happens anyway because they see you know, people see you doing this thing. We get big splashes. Yeah. It follows on that way, really.

Richard Hill [00:19:40]:
So I think, you know, we we talk about events a lot. I think the space, you know, in ecom space, particularly, obviously, we've got a lot of founders that we listen that aren't in the ecom space. But ecom, nice there's a nice, array of events out there. But maybe, the guys that are listening are thinking, do you know what? Let's let's maybe start and and and do a do an event and and get going. Obviously, in those early days, you know, you committed to to some space and, you know, you got sort of thirty thirty yard. But Yeah. Now, obviously, there's a bit more going on, few more people doing things. You know? I'm really intrigued from a personal point of view as well, know? Sort of getting a 10 people there, you know, and, obviously, trying to get a mix of people, you know, so there's a, you know, there's a there's a commercial side to it as well.

Richard Hill [00:20:18]:
So you've got getting getting people in the room, which I think is is the hardest part of any event, you know, to promote an event and to deliver value at the event, I think, is the easier part. Obviously, you've got to get the right speakers and just I'm gonna I'll work with them a bit. So, yeah, I got a bit. You don't put them slides in. We're gonna it's about the value. Yep. But, ultimately, getting people to to to sign up and also getting people to turn up. We'll cover that first.

Richard Hill [00:20:39]:
What's some of the things that maybe you do? I mean, I know you're, you know, fantastic on the on the sort of personal branding on LinkedIn, and we'll come to that. But, you know, I guess, could touch on LinkedIn. But what sort of things are you doing to really drive people to the venue and get them to turn in?

Adam Pearce [00:20:55]:
The main thing that we did in the early days is that we used our network of partners from the agency side. And, you know, the whole thing was then is, look, we we're creating this event for the community, so we want you to be there who is already part of it. Yeah. And that worked really well because, obviously, look, the partners that we work with, they wanted to be part of it because they they wanted that partnership with us ultimately to be fruitful. So that was kind of the first rung of that. Yeah. The other side of it then is that we then did a lot of work, you know, particularly with LinkedIn.

Richard Hill [00:21:25]:
So those partners, potentially speaking then, that's to start with and they said, we'll do it together, two or three people coming around. They're not necessarily paying at that stage

Adam Pearce [00:21:33]:
No. So to sponsor. Exactly. And it was it was more at that stage, like, you know, get them involved with it at this early stage. Yep. And, you know, we've still got people now who have pretty much been to every single one because, you know, they feel like they're part of that community now and it's kind of owned itself.

Richard Hill [00:21:47]:
Yep.

Adam Pearce [00:21:47]:
I think, you know, getting brands to go to events has always been, you know, tricky, I think, regardless of whatever industry you're in.

Richard Hill [00:21:54]:
Yeah.

Adam Pearce [00:21:54]:
And in fact, the first, I think, year, we didn't actually invite brands. It was just about partnerships with agencies and tech providers. Yeah. So to get the brands involved, what we then did is bought brands in to be speakers. So I think, yeah, that's my biggest thing is that we would kinda, you know, in all intents and purposes, we're using the brands as bait for the other brands. Yeah. Because, you know, as much as you and I don't like to admit this, Rich, people don't really give a shit about what we've got to say. Yeah.

Adam Pearce [00:22:20]:
If you're a brand, they wanna hear from the coalface Yeah. What is happening in that business. Some of

Richard Hill [00:22:24]:
it's already doing the three times what you're doing. Exactly.

Adam Pearce [00:22:28]:
Yeah. So, you know, we we did a lot then. We're saying, well, look. Actually, going out on LinkedIn, people say, look. We're running this event. It's a great community event for econ professionals. And by the way, we've got x y zed person speaking on it. Would you like to come along completely free of charge? So we we're at the stage now where about 25% of our attendees are attendees are brands.

Adam Pearce [00:22:46]:
Yeah. And then we think that will probably grow into twenty twenty five as we, you know, keep keep pushing out really.

Richard Hill [00:22:52]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Adam Pearce [00:22:53]:
But I think the other thing as well is that interplay with with the agency is I also use Ecom Cloud Club as a way of keeping in touch with our potential leads. So, you know, we've got leads that we've pitched for, but not one, but I would then invite them to Ecom Cloud Club and invite them to the DTC dining club dinners that we do. Yeah. So, you know, you you can kind of cross pollinate it in that respect Yeah. Without it kinda being too forceful. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Adam Pearce [00:23:19]:
And that's another ask you know, another tool that I've got in my kit to then keep, you know, in touch and going out with something meaningful. Yeah. Because I find that, you know, from an agency perspective, there's only so much content or update you can go out with. Yeah. But if it's like, look, I wanna give this thing for free Yeah. And I want you to come along to this thing.

Richard Hill [00:23:36]:
Speak to this guy, this person, this type of company. You know, where can I ask? Can I I who else can I introduce you to with, help with? It's maybe not something we do, but, you know, obviously, you've got a whole rolodex of tech partners, providers, agencies. So sponsorship. Mhmm. I think that's the that's quite a big one for for events. Obviously, putting on event in Leicester Square, you know, it's it's it's obviously there's a there's a cost to that, cost to to you guys as a company. What sort of things you've been doing to get sponsors on board?

Adam Pearce [00:24:07]:
Yeah. I mean, the the sponsorship side, you know, when we started, there wasn't really a great deal out there. And, you know, I know you're saying two years ago, but in terms of this kind of format, it was fairly kinda, you know, fresh. So what we used to do is we used to offer a sponsorship to a tech provider for one event. And that worked pretty well because there was a lot of hype about it. People wanted to sponsor. But then, obviously, as time's gone on, there are lots of different events going on. Yeah.

Adam Pearce [00:24:34]:
So what we said is actually, we will change the sponsorship slightly so that we can charge a fee for the year, and then you get exposure at different events through the year Yeah. Plus being on our mailing list, plus the social posts we do, plus the other offshoot during

Richard Hill [00:24:49]:
the pandemic. One or two

Adam Pearce [00:24:51]:
Exactly. That you

Richard Hill [00:24:52]:
get exposure maybe a lot more than just the one you're at.

Adam Pearce [00:24:54]:
Exactly. Yeah. And I think, you know, the thing with that then is that there's not so much pressure for them to get the ROI from that one singular event. And secondly, because they're then involved throughout the year, they're also getting more touch points to different people Yeah. Which I think, you know, probably wasn't happening before.

Richard Hill [00:25:09]:
Yeah. That makes sense, actually, as a sponsor as well. Because, obviously, you go into an event, let's say, there's 25 merchants. You know? They're not necessarily ready to do anything right now. But in three, four months, they might be, but they might have forgotten about that sponsor back then. But if that sponsor's still front and center yeah.

Adam Pearce [00:25:22]:
Exactly. I mean, what I would say and it's a bit of a gripe of mine. You know? We've got some great sponsors, you know, a sponsor of the years, but I do feel that tech providers don't use them enough. And what I mean by that is, look, you know, every every panel, every event that we do, we record professionally. We give that recording to them. I've never really seen anything chop it up and use it as marketing.

Richard Hill [00:25:44]:
They've got some crazy cards on there that they could Exactly.

Adam Pearce [00:25:47]:
You know, there's a the you could get the transcript, send it into a blog. Great. You know, do the follow-up so true.

Richard Hill [00:25:52]:
I I was speaking to a tech partner yesterday, and the the conversation got to their video, The fact that they just haven't got the capacity to create and, but they're one of the biggest firms names that we could mention on this podcast. It's like, it's crazy, guys. Why have you not got this capacity to be able to edit, create, publish, and they just didn't have it.

Adam Pearce [00:26:12]:
Exactly. And I think, you know, we've we've tried quite hard the past six months to encourage more of that because, a, then Mhmm. They win. And secondly, you know, from a selfish point of view, if they can prove ROI from it, then they're more like to sponsor again. Yeah. Yeah. So I think we we've sort of we're trying to sort of hold the hand a bit more in that front rather than looking at, oh, we're sponsoring event, end of story. Yeah.

Adam Pearce [00:26:32]:
No. No. That's the jump off point.

Richard Hill [00:26:34]:
Yeah.

Adam Pearce [00:26:34]:
Then you're gonna do all these offshoot pieces off the back of it. But, you know, it's at the moment, it's it's hard to get people to think that way. Yeah.

Richard Hill [00:26:43]:
So you've got two businesses now then

Adam Pearce [00:26:44]:
in

Richard Hill [00:26:45]:
effect for the last couple of years and, obviously, both both growing. And, you know, it's funny because I was, maybe three years ago looking at a platform that we were gonna, look at, making into a community and I installed a bit of software called school.com and I had a good play of it. I don't think anybody in my industry or our industry would have ever heard of it back then. You know, I'm moving in about 20 different communities now, and I've, you know, I paid my £97 a month to have my own and play and whatnot. And and then all of a sudden, you guys popped up, about maybe eight months ago. I'm not gonna get my timeline right. I was like, guys are on it.

Adam Pearce [00:27:21]:
Yeah. It's So

Richard Hill [00:27:22]:
if you I mean, I think it'd be good to just talk about that for the guys that are listening. I think to get a good feel about, you know, building community around the agency. I know it's like agencies here and the and the and the, events company, if we're calling it that, is here. But, obviously, it's all connected. It's all it's all sort of washed us through each other, you know, what you've done there with the community.

Adam Pearce [00:27:43]:
Yeah. I mean, it's the the school thing really started because we used to have a Slack channel. And if anyone's part of these big Slack channels, I don't know about you, but I find them absolutely mind blowing in the sense that there is so much going on all day. It's a continuous stream. You tend to miss things a lot. Yeah. And it gets pulled where you end up muting them. And it's the same like, you know, I'm part of kind of, these WhatsApp groups as well.

Adam Pearce [00:28:09]:
And they can be sort of again, it's this constant stream. So what we said with Skoolers when we came across it is, number one, we can still have that kind of back and forth, but it's more kind of LinkedIn format. But secondly, we can make it bigger and make it more of a hub. So for example, we've got, a section there for courses. We've got about six or seven courses in there. Yeah. We do master classes, which are kind of, you know, live events where you can get involved.

Richard Hill [00:28:34]:
That's something in the calendar, every other

Adam Pearce [00:28:36]:
Absolutely.

Richard Hill [00:28:37]:
Whatever it is, you go log in.

Adam Pearce [00:28:38]:
And you can go and find and be part of that. So you've got another dimension. And then, obviously, you've got another aspect of it where you can then gamify it, whereby if people are putting in content and it's getting good responses, you can then do sort of a gamification of the people that within that. Yeah. So it just really

Richard Hill [00:28:55]:
like that feature. So, obviously, you start from, like, level one or level zero, don't you? And then the more interaction you you give or or, yeah, give, I guess, you build build points, don't you? And then you could say, right. Well, when you hit level five, it locks, you know, to our interview with you in the Shopify some something something or

Adam Pearce [00:29:13]:
whatever the No. Definitely. Yeah. I mean, I would say word of one note that that the problem that we had with it though is we did run a competition using that. And what the competition was is that, basically, if you got if you were top of the leaderboard, you would then have a space at an expo that we are running at. Yeah. And, unfortunately, what happened is that one of our members decided that they were gonna kinda create a little bit of a pod and get people to comment on one another so that they then would win. We got tired about it, found out about it, and that person was then removed from it.

Adam Pearce [00:29:46]:
Yeah. So I would say, look

Richard Hill [00:29:47]:
Don't mess with Adam. It's it's,

Adam Pearce [00:29:49]:
you know, it's it's one of those things, like, I think is a good feature, but but I think you just gotta be mindful that people will try and gamify in that situation. But for me, you know, school for us, I don't think we're there yet. I think we will get to it in other tournaments of getting it really functional we want to, but kind of creating a hub where people will go to that is more you know, it for me, it feels like a very niche version of LinkedIn Yeah. Plus the fact that you then got these extra resources that you can access. Mhmm. So kind of becoming a resource rather than just, you know, the stream of, like Yeah. Yeah. Message, message, message.

Richard Hill [00:30:22]:
Sort of thing. Yeah. No. I really like it. I really like the the platform. I really like what you're doing with the platform. I'd recommend, obviously, anybody listening now to to go and sign up. But is it is it free? I can't

Adam Pearce [00:30:32]:
it's $8 a month. $8

Richard Hill [00:30:34]:
a month.

Adam Pearce [00:30:34]:
Yeah. So

Richard Hill [00:30:35]:
which is which is pretty basically free, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. If you listen to this podcast, you've got $8 a month, then you need to, have a little chat. But, yeah. I mean, I absolutely would recommend. Obviously, there's a lot of people in there, especially if you're in ecommerce specifically. Sure. Yeah.

Richard Hill [00:30:48]:
So we've covered a fair bit of ground. It all sounds pretty rosy out there, doesn't it? You know? It's, you you know, a growing agency, you know, an events company that's booming. Lots of events. And I think, you know, we could talk a lot more about events. But the reality of running an agency, you know, some days can be maybe not quite as rosy. You know, what's Yeah. What would you say, you know, when when sometimes things are a bit tough? Yep. You know, maybe we're sat here just outside of, you know, a month or so, the the sort of summer ended, you know, some of the last three or four months in in the space.

Richard Hill [00:31:22]:
You know? Have you found the last sort of six months or so? You know? What are what are some of the things you maybe do, you know, on a personal level to get you through when times are a little bit tricky?

Adam Pearce [00:31:33]:
Yeah. I mean, look. We we were talking before a recorded one, Rich, and I was saying that this year for us has probably been one of the toughest years we've ever had. Mhmm. And I'll go into some detail on that. I think, look, firstly, this year, we have definitely found that we are now competing in pitches between six and ten agencies for a pitch. Previous years, it's been between three to four. So that adds, you know, a, first of all, there is a lot more competition there.

Adam Pearce [00:32:01]:
And secondly, on top of that, brands that we talk to are very price sensitive. I think what happened over the COVID period is that, you know, ecommerce boomed. There were a lot of people who saw that that was happening, and a lot of these kind of smaller agencies have come in and started offering agency services. I think, you know, on top of that then, with the way the economy has been, there's a bit of a factor in that. But, you know, ultimately, there is always gonna be business out there making money. So I would say that's less of a factor. So for me this year, you know, it's been about saying, look. As an agency, can we bring out a cheaper service offering to what we're doing but maintain the quality? And can we then still go the extra mile that we have been doing previously? So the balance of doing that has been really, really tricky.

Adam Pearce [00:32:51]:
And I think, you know, we've we've definitely had to, you know, look at cutting costs this year. We have also had to make sure that, you know, when we are, you know, spending in terms of things like marketing, are we spending the right things? Yeah. Yeah. Previous years, it was like, okay. We'll do this event for you. Try

Richard Hill [00:33:08]:
something. Yeah. Try it.

Adam Pearce [00:33:09]:
Bit more

Richard Hill [00:33:09]:
brutal with decisions.

Adam Pearce [00:33:10]:
Exactly. And I think, you know, we've we've just had to just really tighten our belts a bit. I think, yeah, the other thing for me that is always tricky and has always been tricky, I think will continue to be, is is recruitment and staff. You know, we've had points where there's been bubbles in terms of, you know, the salaries for developers. I think a few years ago, there were a lot of big ecommerce brands out there who are VC backed coming in Yeah. Sometimes offering double, triple

Richard Hill [00:33:40]:
Yeah.

Adam Pearce [00:33:40]:
What we could offer. And we can't remote. Yeah. Exactly. So, you know, that was tricky. And I think, yeah, at the same time, because there is more demand from clients now, what you then have to expect from your team is bigger. And, obviously, you know, when a time when you can't afford to pay them more, you have to try and look after them in the best way that you can. So it you know, for me, I think this year, you know, keeping staff happy and offering clients something that is giving them value and not making the head's turn Yeah.

Adam Pearce [00:34:13]:
Those are the two biggest thing that have have definitely kept me up at night.

Richard Hill [00:34:16]:
So I've been pretty nimble then. So the thing, well, actually, we've maybe pitched a few things and we've not got them. Why have we not got them? They mentioned price, but is it really price? Maybe it is. Maybe it isn't. But maybe we need to have a look at adjusting that offer, which I think can be quite tricky, a quicker, tricky decision as a founder. I think I'm I I find that different no. We're stuck. We're not Yeah.

Richard Hill [00:34:35]:
It's not us. It's them. You know? But reality is things have you know, it's a little bit tricky out there, or you could say very tricky. It has been, you know, depending on what what you're doing. But looking at the offer, maybe making a few ad hoc decisions on a few potential partnerships, stroke, new bits of business, which I think, you know, you you've gotta do in this climate. I I agree. So with the team then, what are some of the things, you sort of do in terms of recruiting specifics around recruiting the right people in the first place? Yeah. Obviously, I guess you've got this big network when you obviously, when you you've got your events sort of, net out there, you're always having a little, oh, she's quite nice.

Richard Hill [00:35:13]:
She's quite good at the yeah. He's on it. That's true. But then but then also retaining these these guys. Obviously, there's a salary issue, if you like, or issue, but there's a salary challenge. We're part of the salary challenge for a minute, because that's a bit of a challenge, full stop, as it can be. But, obviously, finding new time and retaining them, what are some sort of, actuals that you you you you do?

Adam Pearce [00:35:35]:
I mean, the the main thing with recruitment for us is when we do point that out then, we generally would start with a LinkedIn ad. We get a lot of applications from people who have been generally involved in ecommerce. We get some people that have been specifically involved within Shopify, and then we get a lot of people who have not ever even touched a computer. So there's three parts to draw from. From our point of view, what we found is as, you know, as a small size company, there are, what, there's 15 of us. We don't have the capacity as a business to really come in and, you know, spend a lot of time in upskilling people. So we have to be very specific with the people we hire of saying, well, look. When they come in, they need to have had a very specific experience within Shopify or specific types of companies and have done very specific things.

Adam Pearce [00:36:26]:
So we've just tried to make sure that when we do recruit, we then bring in people that can hit the ground running. Now it's not to say, you know, that we don't, you know, wanna sort of retain and and train people because we do. We we pay for all of our teams to use CXL. Yeah. So all of them have an opportunity then to kinda continue their learning. And then I think, you know, on top of that as well, we also then have quite a few of kind of, you know, team training days where you've got people then looking at a particular aspect Mhmm. Or a particular skill to try and sort of that, but that way. So

Richard Hill [00:36:58]:
is that something like every quarter, you have an external person come in and then the majority of the team and they learn Absolutely. They're more training on something.

Adam Pearce [00:37:05]:
And we, you know, we we worked a lot with, a consultant who helped us with there's this thing called insights profiles, and I've talked about it a lot in the past, but they have been fantastic because what you then do is you give your team a manual for each other about how that person operates best and also how you as a person operate best. And I think that's something, again, that's helped us a lot. We kinda get that cohesion in the team.

Richard Hill [00:37:31]:
Each of the Yeah.

Adam Pearce [00:37:32]:
Absolutely. Yeah. And, you know, it I always tell a story about me and Peter. We we once fell out very famously with, an f word being exchanged to another. And after that, we actually happened to meet Sarah who was our consultant. And she told me about insights profiles, and we did it. And what we realized is that, actually, we were very similar in some respects, but massively different than the other. And it made us realize that both of us will get to the end point, but the way that he does it is very different to me.

Adam Pearce [00:38:03]:
And it was that acceptance

Richard Hill [00:38:04]:
of understand that. It's like, okay. I realize why he's like that. He's like that.

Adam Pearce [00:38:09]:
Exactly. And we're both as pig headers each other, and we both thought we were right.

Richard Hill [00:38:13]:
And it actually exercise to do, isn't it?

Adam Pearce [00:38:14]:
It is. You know? And, in all honesty, I think, you know, it probably saved us from having Yeah. You know, go and look at you and do this anymore.

Richard Hill [00:38:21]:
Yeah. Yeah. It was

Adam Pearce [00:38:22]:
it was a big, big moment for us.

Richard Hill [00:38:23]:
Something we pinched from another agency. Thank you. Was similar to what you said. You know? So when somebody starts here, they fill out what we refer to as my manual Yes. With 10 questions. You know? What do you like to be called? What's your favorite session and such? How do you like to be given feedback? How do you like to learn? And so on and so on and so on. So when somebody starts, they can get a feel for the other people in the team teams, you know, and everyone can it's quite a recent thing. So it's like I need probably two months ago.

Richard Hill [00:38:50]:
I don't know. It's just like some very, you know, I'm I'm looking at it. Oh, I didn't know that. I didn't know that this is such is, you know, it's just really quite insightful. And then, obviously, when you're chatting to them, you can have different conversations as well about the things they're interested in that you might not know. And, you know, you might find that, oh, actually, I'm I'm into that as well.

Adam Pearce [00:39:06]:
And yeah. Exactly. And I think, you know, it's important, isn't it? Because we we're trying to yeah. I think with an agency, you need to present at that as a united front. Mhmm. And secondly, you absolutely need to work as united front. So the more that you can get people understanding each other about what makes them tick, the better it's gonna be. And I think, you know, this is sometimes the issue, you know, with with agents is when they get to sixty, seventy, a hundred people because you don't have that sort of personal touch and that personal understanding, that sometimes can fall away.

Adam Pearce [00:39:38]:
And I think, you know, you definitely see with, you know, these kind of, like, monstrous agencies, particularly in The US, their rate of retention is very poor because I don't think, you know, you have that ability at that size unless you work really damn hard at

Richard Hill [00:39:51]:
it Yeah.

Adam Pearce [00:39:52]:
To make sure that people are, you know, constantly bonding together.

Richard Hill [00:39:54]:
Yeah. Yeah. You mentioned The US a couple of times. Are you are you sort of, got sort of a bit of a focus on sort of US Yeah. And growing in The US more?

Adam Pearce [00:40:02]:
Yeah. I mean, we, as a business, we are probably about 80% US in terms of our revenue. Yeah. And and it all stems back to what I was saying at the start about when we started. Yeah. Because The US market was, you know, sort of really open, we naturally just stayed there. Yeah. So most of the clients that we work with in The US are East Coast.

Adam Pearce [00:40:22]:
So time zone wise, it works pretty well.

Richard Hill [00:40:24]:
Too bad. Yeah.

Adam Pearce [00:40:25]:
I think the other thing is why, you know, it's changed in The UK, but I think there still very much is this transactional idea of relationship with an agency in that you come in, you get paid your money, you do your thing. Whereas I think, you know, with American brands, because the market's more mature, you know, I will have brands come to say, look, Adam. We're absolutely screwed in this respect. We've tried this thing. It didn't work. Can you help us? Whereas the general conversation, you know, I think in in The UK tend to be, how much is it gonna be? Or what do you want? Well, tell us

Richard Hill [00:40:59]:
what you do.

Adam Pearce [00:41:00]:
Yeah. And it's like, it it's still that like, you still feel some I feel sometimes that we're seeing as, like, the IT department. Mhmm. And it's that kind of relationship

Richard Hill [00:41:08]:
that Interesting.

Adam Pearce [00:41:09]:
For some is changing, but for a lot sell, it is very much that's the first question. Whereas, you know, I want it to be, look. This thing is not working for us. Our conversion rate is terrible. We haven't got customers coming back. We tried this thing. What do you suggest? Mhmm. Because we're more you know, we wanna give people, you know, a bit of, you know, okay.

Adam Pearce [00:41:28]:
Look. Bit of hope. Okay. There is something they can do, and then we can get into conversation of this is how we do it. This is how much it's gonna cost. But, no, that would be my advice really to, I think, a, to brands. Go in with, you know, for an open mind, open heart. And secondly, I think now from an agency point of view, give people the ability to to give that information and get a number from them.

Adam Pearce [00:41:50]:
Mhmm. What is the number you need to get to? Is it £3,000,000 rent a year? Yeah. Is it that you've been told your conversion rate needs to be 3%? Whatever it is, put that down. You as the brand and you as the agency have got that as a single focus Yeah. Rather than kind of being, wow. You know, we're improving this, improving that well.

Richard Hill [00:42:07]:
Yeah. It does my head in. Like, I'd I mean, I went to a conference yesterday. It was a great conference, but I just fear there's so much noise everywhere. Yeah. And the reality is you sit down with a founder or a senior person that's responsible. At end of the day, should be some should be somewhere where we're trying to get. And usually, they should have a pound sign in front of it.

Richard Hill [00:42:27]:
Yep. You know, not well, I'm gonna just need to page one for this, or we just need to sell a bit more. Or it's like, guys, come on. We're gonna bumble along or we're gonna have, like, a right, you know, and actually have an actual hard sort of target KPI that's, you know, okay. It might be a stretch, but let's all get on the same page rather than

Adam Pearce [00:42:45]:
Yep.

Richard Hill [00:42:45]:
A lot of there's a lot of, lot of noise, I find.

Adam Pearce [00:42:49]:
I agree. I think, you know, the problem is, Rich, is that, you know, in the industry that we're in, there are so many different factors, uncontrollable variables that can happen that impact on the sales of an ecommerce brand. But by not having a single number to get to, you end up in this very wishy washy relationship where you're pulling all these metrics out week to week, month to month. This thing's better. This thing's better. This thing's better. But, ultimately, it's standing in question. The pounds or dollars in our bank account are not gonna put the right way to be.

Adam Pearce [00:43:20]:
And, you know, unless you get to that and say, look. We've tried these things. This worked. That didn't work. We're progressing towards it in this way. Yeah. You're always gonna have a tension between agency and a brand.

Richard Hill [00:43:31]:
How about having a conversation with your team that's like you know, they're like if even your own team, but the client's team and their wishy washy, this, that, and the other at the end of the month, everyone gets paid, don't they? Or they should get paid. Yep. But if you paid them in ROAS or you paid them in a 2% lift in this or a 5% on this, they'd be like, what the freak you on about? So they'd be going, right. Here's your $4. Oh, great. Yeah. Is you yeah. They have a a change in the language.

Richard Hill [00:44:00]:
I think it was a couple of presentation yesterday that were great because they were very much at end of the day, there's a lot of big brands that are struggling out there, and I think it's usually come stay well. There's obviously all sorts of reasons, but quite often, you know, they're making their money as as the reality. But, so we've covered a lot of ground, Adam. A lot of ground. I feel we could go on. We could go on. But, you know, obviously, you've I I sense that, you know, you've well, you've definitely seen a lot, heard a lot, you know, been in front of a lot of different, brands and clients and and partners. What's probably one of the funniest things you've seen, you know, or unexpected things you've seen in a pitch?

Adam Pearce [00:44:36]:
Oh my god. I mean, I so, yeah, we, we got introduced as a very big brand in The States, and we got very excited about the pitch. And, we were scheduled to have this call, which we believe was just gonna be the CEO. So we me and Peter get onto the call, excitedly wait in. And, we go in, and we see that there are six people waiting in the meeting. So that's strange. Anyway, we then get on. Not only are the six people waiting, there is an a very beautiful oak boardroom oak boardroom table with the CEO sat right at the end and then lined with 10 of the people.

Adam Pearce [00:45:18]:
So you know me, Rich. I'm fairly casual the way that I dress. I think I had a t shirt with maybe some yogurt down it, and Peter probably hadn't shaved for a few weeks. And we kinda sat there went, oh, hi, guys. I'd love to meet you. The call was thirty minutes. We finished introductions at at minute thirteen. So that was an interesting one.

Adam Pearce [00:45:38]:
And then trying to then try and cram in in seventeen minutes, what we got to cover was pretty damn hard. So Did you win it? We did. Yeah. But, you know, I think, look, this The yogurt that did it. Yeah. There's yogurt on the top. But I think, you know, this was kind of, you know, one of the lessons we learned about working with big companies and that, you know, in that situation, we weren't the right agency for them. Yeah.

Adam Pearce [00:45:59]:
We knew it really from day one, and I think, ultimately, they did because they had such a large team and so many different things happening for them, not just the d two c front, but marketplaces, retail. Yeah. Yeah. That isn't our forte. You know, we we are pure play, d two c, Shopify, Shopify plus, and, you know, it was we should have really known from that point. But, yeah, that was, like, just unbelievable. And there's been some other disasters as well, but, yeah, I'll talk about those another time.

Richard Hill [00:46:30]:
Well, thanks for sharing that. I think last question from me. I think, sort of like personal branding around agency founders. I think that's something you do fantastically. I think, you know, you bring your personality to it. But I think, there'll be a lot of people listening, a lot of agency founders that are maybe a little bit anxious about, what to share and and, you know, where how to go about it. What would your advice be on that?

Adam Pearce [00:46:55]:
I think for me, you give a shit levels need to be on the floor. And it's the best advice that Peter said give me because I came you know, I graduated. I went in a very corporate environment. I used to put an accent on because I didn't want people to know that I was a brimming. Yeah. Believe it or not, I actually did. It's pathetic. And when I start working with Peter

Richard Hill [00:47:13]:
I wanna hear the accent in a minute.

Adam Pearce [00:47:15]:
No. That's another time. Few beers maybe first. But I think, you know, I really like Peter said to me, he's like, look. Ultimately, we do what we do. We are who we are. Yeah. And we just need to tell people how it is.

Adam Pearce [00:47:26]:
Yeah. So I think when it comes to me and the stuff that I put out there, I, a, try and boil it down to be simpler and not talking acronyms, which I think a lot of people get into that kind of habit of doing. Yeah. And secondly, also not trying to make out that everything's rosy all the time because the reality is it's not. Yeah. And, you know, I know countless people on LinkedIn who will put things on, and I know that they're struggling with either personal things or business things or it might be. So I think as long as you're putting for me, from the personal brand side, putting stuff out there is actually useful and helpful. Yeah.

Adam Pearce [00:48:00]:
The sales bit will come afterwards because people will then resonate with you. And also be prepared that some people are gonna like you. Some people can't bloody stand me, and that's fine. I've got no issues with that. But the people that I want to like me and I want, you know, to get value from me generally do.

Richard Hill [00:48:15]:
Yeah.

Adam Pearce [00:48:16]:
But it's just I think, you know, with particularly on personal branding, when it comes to LinkedIn, being somewhere in the middle where you just kind of like another post that's coming out, you know, I'm delighted to announce that I have. I come on. No one gives a shit about that. You know, tell me a reason why that thing is useful. And if you've got a new role, tell us about some of the exciting things you're gonna do. Yeah. Tell us about some of the things that you can now be able to do or provide to people. Yeah.

Adam Pearce [00:48:43]:
So just just make it a bit more inviting and exciting.

Richard Hill [00:48:46]:
That comes quite naturally to you, though, because, obviously, you write some quite lengthy posts sometimes.

Adam Pearce [00:48:50]:
Yeah. It's

Richard Hill [00:48:51]:
quite a natural flow for you. For me, we spend a lot of time spending hours a day, but you're just, like, twenty minutes in the morning.

Adam Pearce [00:48:56]:
It's it's pretty quick for me. But, you know, look, I I'm someone, you know, even through school, you know, words, English, writing was always my forte.

Richard Hill [00:49:04]:
Yeah.

Adam Pearce [00:49:04]:
The math side, technical side,

Richard Hill [00:49:06]:
that's all.

Adam Pearce [00:49:07]:
So I think, you know, for me, it's a bit more straightforward. But I would say, have a look at what other people are doing within the industry and try and find someone that is closer to you in terms of how you think about life. Because if you can use that as the inspiration, I think, yeah, that's a great I mean, for me, like, I there's a guy called James Tuckerman that I really like. He he talks on himself as mister b to b, but everything that he puts out there is so straightforward to understand. Yeah. It's so simple in terms of application, but it's massively valuable. I'm nowhere near him in terms of what he does, but I look at him for inspiration and think, is this the kind of stuff that James Tuckerman would do? Yeah. Probably, yeah.

Adam Pearce [00:49:45]:
Like, you got people like that, Alex Hamotze, who I can't stand. Yeah. You know, I wouldn't ever do anything like it because he's too brash. He's too raw. But you bought school? I don't I did, unfortunately. Yeah. So, yeah, he wins. Sorry.

Adam Pearce [00:49:57]:
But it's yeah. I think I just gotta find someone, I think, for inspiration rather than, you know, everyone wants to be Gary v. You're not Gary v.

Richard Hill [00:50:06]:
Yeah.

Adam Pearce [00:50:06]:
Most people aren't. So just, you know, find your own thing that you feel comfortable in. And then rather than sitting there for hours getting shit on LinkedIn Yeah. It just becomes more natural then. Well, thanks, Adam.

Richard Hill [00:50:18]:
I think Pleasure. We covered a lot of ground. We covered a lot of different things. Now I'd like to finish every episode with a book recommendation of a book you'd recommend to our listeners.

Adam Pearce [00:50:27]:
Big recommendation for me, anything by Mike Michalowicz, but I would recommend The Pumpkin Plan. Particularly if you're like me where you maybe have different business interests in different areas, It's all about nurturing the things. The pumpkins are gonna grow well and killing the things that don't. Great.

Richard Hill [00:50:42]:
We'll link it up in the show notes. For those that wanna find out more about yourself, more about Blend, more about Ecom Collab, what's the best way to find all that?

Adam Pearce [00:50:51]:
Yeah. So you can find me on LinkedIn, Adam Pierce. I am also quite active, on LinkedIn, obviously. But then on top of that, blendcommerce.com. And if you'd like to find out more about Ecom Collab Club, if you search for Ecom Collab Club, we have our monthly event in London. And we also have events in, Bristol, Dublin, Manchester, Toronto, and soon to be Lisbon and Barcelona as well. Wow.

Richard Hill [00:51:15]:
Fantastic. Well, it's been an absolute pleasure. Thanks

Adam Pearce [00:51:17]:
for taking my time. Appreciate it. Cheers. If If

Richard Hill [00:51:22]:
you enjoyed this episode, hit the subscribe or follow button wherever you are listening to this podcast. You're always the first to know when a new episode is released. Have a fantastic day, and I'll see you on the next one.